?

Closed Thread
#1
Old 9-03-2011, 17:42
Australia
3,183 Posts
Steam Profile
hatchet hatchet is offline
Administrator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ask A Question Forum
Hi, I am new to demoman (but experienced in comp tf2), and have to learn to play the class from scratch for this season of OWL. I've been watching demo's of other teams and myself to see how they play, but from recent scrims there are questions that I would like answered by people with a bit of experience as demoman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ask A Question Forum

At middle what players should i focus on damaging?
I find that there are two ways to play middle, focusing on hitting the enemy scouts, which allows your scouts to get into a more commanding position. The negative of this is that the enemy demoman gets free reign and is able to use health advantage to push your heavies out easily, and you as well. Also scouts are much quicker to heal up than heavies.

Focusing the enemy demoman results in me getting focussed hard by enemy scouts as well, so I’m not sure if there’s a correct way to play middle, but from watching other players I assume that pressuring the enemy demoman is the best way to play.

Is there any specific way to aim pipes.
I find that i struggle ridiculously hard with hitting pipes because i aim entirely with precise tracking and muscle memory flicks using movement to compensate my aim. So how do other demoman go about hitting pipes? I've been told that flicking aimlessly is the main way to do it, but that seems so wrong and counter intuitive.

As far as rollout goes, should i be focussing on getting to middle faster than the enemy demoman, getting to mid on really high hp, or trying to get a balance of both?
In the last few scrims ive been trying a mixture of both and have come to the conclusion that a balance of both is the ideal way to play middle. Getting to middle late means i take a significant amount of damage before i can achieve anything, or get forced out really quickly. Getting to middle too early means i struggle to deal with scouts who pistol the demoman from catwalk as the enemy demoman likely has much more hp than me so he can play more aggresive. So is striking a balance between the two the correct way?

How do i deal with secondary soldiers that suicide jump at me besides hitting the midair or placing a sticky at their landing location? I find i struggle to deal with those players.
From the demo's i've watched, its quick calls resulting in the floating scout running to the demomans position and shooting the soldier before he can do any real harm. I find that in my team though, the scouts are really deathmatch oriented and tend not to respond to calls as much, because they are focusing on winning duels with players instead. So how would i go about correcting this myself? Or is this a scout problem?

Do good demoman have a limit in regards to how much ammo they use to output damage, so that they always have some spare for emergency? If so, what is the limit, or is it entirely situational?
From watching some demomen (ryb/extremer/yuki/b4nny/dummy), i've noticed that they always keep 2 pipes in reserve, and at least 3 stickies, usually continuing to reload and forsaking damage output. Is this the best option? Prime v iM was doing the opposite and it seemed to be incredibly hot and cold, with either it working incredibly well, or it resulting in him dying because he couldn't defend himself. So i think that 2 pipes, 3 sticky is good tradeoff no?

Just some questions i can't really find answers for in the demo's i watch, and i don't really have many friends who play demoman at a decent level to ask these questions to. So thought i would post here.
#2
Old 9-03-2011, 17:42
Australia
3,183 Posts
Steam Profile
hatchet hatchet is offline
Administrator
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Mercy
Good questions but you answered them all yourself and i pretty much agree with you.

Everything is situational regrading team strategy, number of players alive and terrain, but if youre asking the right questions when it counts then the solutions should usually become self evident.

Maybe yuki could shed some light on the finer demoman points.
Last edited by hatchet; 9-03-2011 at 17:57.
#3
Old 9-03-2011, 17:55
Australia
3,183 Posts
Steam Profile
hatchet hatchet is offline
Administrator
At middle what players should i focus on damaging?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki
There's no correct class to focus while in mid. In the first few seconds (before the soldiers/med get there, mind you) you are going for either scouts/demo. My gran rollout usually consists of me prestickying their kit once/twice, then depending on their rollout, prestickying catwalk or the crates.

A general priority for targets is usually demo > forward players (usually an aggro soldier) > scouts (though as i said, this is general and definitely isn't a correct priority, priority changes all the time during a rollout).
Is there any specific way to aim pipes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki
Can't really comment on aiming pipes, just feels natural for me to flick alot (not aimlessly mind). Occasionally i will slow down my aim a bit when i feel the situation arises, though I'm a flick aimer for sure.

As far as rollout goes, should i be focussing on getting to middle faster than the enemy demoman, getting to mid on really high hp, or trying to get a balance of both?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki
Speed is definitely a huge advantage. You should be doing your jumps/getting healed on your approach to mid so you get there at the fastest speed possible and USUALLY on max hp (as you pick up the kit in mid). Allows you to put significant early pressure on their demoman/scouts especially, since you already have position on them and are ably to pre-sticky their positions.

The alternative is a slow rollout on some maps (for eg badlands) where you are playing from window; you're pretty much not going to take any damage from there, problem being you're not in the best position to do much damage.
How do i deal with secondary soldiers that suicide jump at me besides hitting the midair or placing a sticky at their landing location? I find i struggle to deal with those players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki
Pre sticky where they jump from. Also, on gran, run a scout high for the first few secs of a rollout; if the soldier doesn't jump you're good to go. I always spread my stickies out in a rollout - never in one spot.

This is a very rough guide but my stickying usually consists of: medkit > catwalk > right gap > their crates (this is usually for a standard, not 'american' rollout). Running a scout high should usually demolish a jumping soldier.

Do good demoman have a limit in regards to how much ammo they use to output damage, so that they always have some spare for emergency? If so, what is the limit, or is it entirely situational?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki
There's not really a magic number of ammo to have. I just manage my ammo so 90+% of the time i'm not in a fight with ZERO ammunition, so i can actually contribute + defend myself. Then again, i do get a pretty good amount of bottle kills.

All of these questions come down to personal playstyle. There are some general 'guidelines', but the more you play the class will lead you to your own 'right' ways of doing things.

Hope that helped.
#4
Old 9-03-2011, 18:16
Australia
5,695 Posts
Steam Profile
b/cactuar cactuar is offline aka cactuar., cactuaR, seRious, CaCtUaR
Banned
At middle what players should i focus on damaging?

on gran you should be able to hit the demo for 30-50 if you both get there at the same time, if you are beating him there by a second or two you can tell a scout/s to plus him and get an easy kill. if their demo has a sticky on the healthpack right as you turn to it, you are too slow. on badlands if you do house rollout you should be able to get 1-2 stickies into the demo/scouts if they are playing off train. then its up to you.

Is there any specific way to aim pipes?

play in div 2 for a season (probably div 1 now too l0l)

As far as rollout goes, should i be focussing on getting to middle faster than the enemy demoman, getting to mid on really high hp, or trying to get a balance of both?

badlands jumps are ezpz health wise and you should prac the gran ones so you go through the door to mid at 9:41 at latest whilst not being in red hp.

How do i deal with secondary soldiers that suicide jump at me besides hitting the midair or placing a sticky at their landing location? I find i struggle to deal with those players.

theres no specific way, you can middy them, sticky near where they land and ofc get your team to help you out. middys are awesome so i always go for middys. on mid its pretty easy (vs most teams) to sticky your/their crate or train and just destroy them with your scouts.

Do good demoman have a limit in regards to how much ammo they use to output damage, so that they always have some spare for emergency? If so, what is the limit, or is it entirely situational?

ALWAYS reload stickies first so you have some left for emergencies. dont try and pipe everything (bit ironic) and try and play for a bit just using them for spam/extreme emergencies and you will develop it as a habit. theres no rule like "i should always have 3 stickies and 2 pipes loaded" if you are doing something like that you will probably not do as much damage as you should, you will just begin to get a feel for it the more you play.
Last edited by cactuar; 9-03-2011 at 18:19.
#5
Old 9-03-2011, 20:16
New South Wales
791 Posts
Steam Profile
esntial's Avatar
jkesntial esntial is offline aka essentiAL
Member
i had two rules when i played demo
1. try not to pipe when a target is not targeting you (so if a scouts about to bum rush your med just reload a sticky you find when a player targets a med their movment becomes more predictable. i prefer that to missing 5 pipes but thats just cause i have bad aim.) of course der is exceptions like when there is an opportunity for a mid air use all your fucking pipes yb
2. dont listen to cactuar LOLOLOLOLOLOLRAPEDFGTLOLOOOLOLOLOL
Last edited by esntial; 9-03-2011 at 20:17.
#6
Old 9-03-2011, 23:38
Sydney
1,680 Posts
Team Blue VeteranAttended ozfLANSteam Profile
shock's Avatar
shockfights for BLU shock is offline aka Aftershock
Member
Well, i can only offer advice with aiming pipes. But basically, aim in the opposite direction to the one their moving (this is mainly against scouts).

A LOT of scouts will change direction to avoid the pipe you've just fired, and they'll do it as soon as you fire. More often than not, this means that they'll dodge INTO the pipe.

This sounds like something only a retard would do (and tbh i dont have a lot of experience at a high level of play) but the idea is that, at the range a scout will typically engage you, there's no time for them to observe which direction it is moving in, before it reaches the scout.

Of course, this is far from reliable, so you've just gotta try to not get yourself into these kinds of situations.
Last edited by shock; 9-03-2011 at 23:41.
#7
Old 10-03-2011, 00:09
Perth
1,248 Posts
QUACK!Team Blue VeteranSteam Profile
Fathas the fever Fat is offline aka fatcraftman
Member
Aiming pipes just comes from experience, you get really good at it playing #tf2pug with no scouts!
#8
Old 10-03-2011, 02:13
Australia
4,498 Posts
QUACK!
MentorSteam Profile
ferelah's Avatar
ozfortressferelah ferelah is offline aka Feresar
League Admin
As someone else who picked up demo, I had to learn alot for myself, but always sought advice where I could. Most of what you ask you will have to learn and experience for yourself.

At middle what players should i focus on damaging?

In the initial confrontation, you should always try to do damage to the other demo (if he is on time), then what happens next is situational:
-What is pressuring you? If you are being pressured, let your team know and THEY deal with it, dont waste 4 stickies tryin to fight back a scout who is harassing you, deal some damage to him and let your team deal with it. Focus on your role.

-What should you be pressuring? Is the demo not in sight? He is probably trying to go down a flank, head that off, corner them in a bad position.

-What is your team going to do? If you rollout to mid and expect some magic pick to happen and just shout "GO GO GO" and thats your job done, div4 is the place for you. Your team has a plan, even if its scout/soldiers dives something, be ready to go, be in a position to assist quickly, have health and ammo to do it.

Is there any specific way to aim pipes?

Completely preference. Tracking usually doesnt work since most scouts will play on your flanks meaning its just a circle track. There are two types of flicking, the first is people just guessing and flick and it seems amazing cos all their shots which connect go to a frag vid with pendulum. The second type is a mixture of track and flick. You are mentally tracking the player until they reach a point that you know you can flick to with your muscle memory. Sometimes you dont need to move your mouse at all to aim pipes, just strafe.

As far as rollout goes, should i be focussing on getting to middle faster than the enemy demoman, getting to mid on really high hp, or trying to get a balance of both?

Can't answer this as I still need to practise these myself

How do i deal with secondary soldiers that suicide jump at me besides hitting the midair or placing a sticky at their landing location? I find i struggle to deal with those players.

This I can answer, its down to your scouts. It has to be called early, then you sticky their landing location and back off a bit (eg badlands maint jump) or try and evade them long enough to let your team kill them. I usually only put one pipe into the midair and concentrate on surviving rather than killing him.

Ideally it comes down to your scouts and pocket getting the call and reacting. But the two sidedness of this is sometimes no one reacts while on the other hand your whole team reacts and then gets rolled by a demo walking forward

Do good demoman have a limit in regards to how much ammo they use to output damage, so that they always have some spare for emergency? If so, what is the limit, or is it entirely situational?

I have yet to figure out a sense of ammo management but i generally keep a pipe or two loaded depending on situation, and I always reload stickies in preference to pipes. More or less, if you have stickies, dont pull out your pipe launcher, leave the pendulum moment to esntial.


This is a bit of a half cocked answer to your questions but I hope it helps. It will just come down to your experimenting ingame and getting the experience yourself. Good luck.
Closed Thread
Thread Tools