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#1
Old 25-04-2010, 19:31
United States
29 Years Old
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Post here any any thoughts and feedback you have regarding cp_extraction_rc2 after you have played your CFL round match.

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· Rating: (1-5)
· Likes:
· Dislikes:
· Would You like to see this map in future ozfortress comps?:

Notes: any player is invited to voice their opinion, would appreciate team captains offering their opinions.
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#2
Old 25-04-2010, 19:51
Australia
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vR*valk valk is offline aka valk, va
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so you think you can map entry!
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#3
Old 26-04-2010, 23:23
Australia
634 Posts
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svzaka zaka is offline aka a pudddy cat, Pudddy, Puddy
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· Rating: 1
· Likes:B point was a good point to defend.
· Dislikes: Way too over complicated with all these connectors going everywere.
· Would You like to see this map in future ozfortress comps?: no thanks


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#4
Old 27-04-2010, 04:40
Victoria
27 Years Old
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«shrak shrak is offline aka tele
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· Rating: 2
· Likes: Decent basic layout
· Dislikes: 259825 passages all over the place, point C seemed a bit cramped
· Would You like to see this map in future ozfortress comps?: neg
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#5
Old 27-04-2010, 10:18
Australia
27 Years Old
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Antiphon.bvz Antiphon is offline aka Last
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rating 3
likes: that through play testing the map maker was able to refine the dynamics of gameplay without sacrificing the general layout of the map.
-last cap defending - good spots for sentries, good hold positions, spamming is a bit hard unless coordinated.
-last cap attacking - the cap means people have to prioritise it wherever possible and get funnelled onto it, which is ideal for a 3 cp map.
-a cap defence - didnt even really consider it possible, but jk came up with a really solid hold on cap a. done properly both caps are relatively defendable, and actually a seems easier to retreat and push back into than b.
-spawn - times are ok, not perfect in terms of the waves, but good. spawn camping is fairly hard to do when defending c, but easy when people are going to b.

dislikes
- no takebacks - little corridors, little doors, wreck taking cap backs on defence. i can't imagine anyone wanting to use an uber advantage to push back into b or a to defend it.
-no commitment - again, i make the same point that blue spawners dont have to commit to attack. a sniper or dh can sit at the spawn door and spam into a defence. it is fairly hard to defend, when the position to defend from is in clear attacking site of 3 non-commitment areas. i did however like the roller doors c-a and c-b
-confusion - yeah, there are corridors that look like they lead to b, or a, but take you to c. no decals for me so the signage might be there. but yeah, if you just get tele'd (hey seeker) and have no idea where you are, makes for quite funny mumble material

would i blah blah? no. good concept for 3cp, but in all honesty there are not many 3 cp's that can live up to the gameplay of gravelpit. needs a fair bit of work
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#6
Old 27-04-2010, 17:58
Australia
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jkPAUL GEORGE PAUL GEORGE is offline aka hellscream, her0in, pookie, uzice, Minzy
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edit: got some input!!!!
rating:
2
5:16 PM - SQL JackM: shit 0/5 NEVER IN COMP
5:12 PM - yertle: 2.5
5:41 PM - pipes: -10
6:20 PM - korea: 3.5
6:21 PM - mooo: 3.5

So the map got a 2.3/5 rating (excluding the -10)


likes:
defending was fun, both sites seem fairly good

6:19 PM - korea: two decent points that are viable to attack and defend properly
6:19 PM - korea: much better than last map
(he means takeback mountain)

6:19 PM - mooo: I didn't mind that map last night
6:19 PM - mooo: it worked well

dislikes:

pretty much attacking at all - every single place u come from is a choke and youre just going to die if the other team has +attack bound and can see the giant blue guys coming from the narrow corridor and decides it would be a good idea to press their +attack button - might pay to open certain areas of the map up and also add some alternate routes (by alternate routes i dont mean more passageways which split up 10 times then meet up at the same door - even with a fair amount of looking on the map several people got lost)

5:35 PM - pipes: to many unneeded places, spawn right where u need to cap pretty stupid

5:39 PM - WEBELIEVEsnow[OZFHoF][jk]**: ive got a cold
5:39 PM - WEBELIEVEsnow[OZFHoF][jk]**: its really fucking annoying

5:12 PM - yertle: bad

6:20 PM - korea: yeah it was ok
6:20 PM - korea: lots of walls
6:20 PM - korea: too many chokes
6:20 PM - korea: even the open area felt clutered

6:19 PM - mooo: chokes were a bit tight and too plentiful

would you like to see map: errr probably not in its current state but like with all the other maps with changes it would be playable @_@
Last edited by PAUL GEORGE; 27-04-2010 at 18:55. Reason: red!=blue
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#7
Old 28-04-2010, 22:07
Australia
90 Posts
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Nathan1el|MD| Nathan1el is offline
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So much wasted space and stupid props everywhere, really feels like the mapper threw things down without thinking about use, more than aethstetics. Least favourite map of the comp.
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#8
Old 28-04-2010, 22:18
Australia
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foxy•Crowie#c0g Crowie is offline aka Dr. Crowie
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Prefered Format:
· Rating: (1-5) 1
· Likes: B point was ok
· Dislikes: so many pointless areas that server no function, too many connectors that lead to more connectors makes attacking and defending C very confusing. Way too big for 6v6. The roof on A is clipped (why?). All in all an annoying and awkward map to play on. Very slow to get around.
· Would You like to see this map in future ozfortress comps?: No
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#9
Old 28-04-2010, 22:28
Australia
1,409 Posts
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NOSERKlingerthe team Klinger is offline
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Ok, I LOVED this map. Almost 100% sure everyone else liked it.

Rating: 4.5

Likes: Attacking wasnt insanely hard, we got A for free both times but B wasnt that hard to cap with a good suicide run by the scouts and then uber push. PLENTY of routes, not all routes could be covered so when defending C you could flank, I did it as a pyro. The class diversity that comes with 3cp A/D maps. Good sentry spots for last. I liked the close spawn to point thing. Personally I prefer this to gpit, we played it better too.

Likes being uncapped.

Dislike: Walking into the fake door -_- otherwise....nothing

Would I like to see it in future ozfortress comps?: Definitely, I see it as a good alternate to gravel pit. Personally hoping this and mainline are selected as some of the maps for owl3.
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#10
Old 29-04-2010, 22:10
Australia
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go!Cole Cole is offline aka geomanis
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· Rating: 1
· Likes:

lol?

The last point is interesting to play on, different ways to defend and push, quite enjoyable. Im not sure what point is what, but the one with the gulch is ridiculously easy to defend, and the other one isn't. I also liked the water in dropdown areas to prevent fall damage and provide rocketboosts.
· Dislikes:

Pointless areas, Pointless props, one point being impossible to retake (at least in our game). The overtime thing is broken on the map, because as soon as you cap the 2nd point, it doesn't add any extra time to the clock and you lose instantly.

Heavy is broken now, it served to frustrate us by hitting us with stupid amounts of damage from a long/medium range. Thats Valves problem though, not the mapmakers.

C point is interesting to defend, because there are like 100 different areas to run out, so its impossible for a team to cover it all.
· Would You like to see this map in future ozfortress comps?: No. Haven't really had any experience with good maps since CFL 1 and 2. :\
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#11
Old 30-04-2010, 09:55
Australia
26 Years Old
430 Posts
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· Rating: -1
· Likes: get to lol at how lost we get
· Dislikes: constant spam on mumble" where the fuck am i?"
· Would You like to see this map in future ozfortress comps?:no
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#12
Old 30-04-2010, 10:50
Australia
693 Posts
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Is there a team that DIDN'T get completely lost on this map?
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#13
Old 30-04-2010, 13:35
Melbourne
27 Years Old
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Uther Doul Uther Doul is offline aka Laveidem, lavender, lav, meatball, Extreme Boyheat, Tamerlane
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I found it easy to navigate.
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#14
Old 30-04-2010, 18:58
Australia
1,409 Posts
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NOSERKlingerthe team Klinger is offline
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Me too! I got lost in warmup and when I first looked at it but its not that hard, especially If you learn say 3 of the 20billion routes.
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#15
Old 1-05-2010, 00:50
Australia
755 Posts
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iMle_420_princeintel le_420_prince is offline aka epic, stomash, Radical!
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Prefered Format:

· Rating: (1-5): 4

· Likes: Both points attackable/defendable. Pleasing to the eye, generally a fun map to play

· Dislikes: Some might find the layout confusing (i didn't and the match was the first time i loaded the map) We also didn't get to see much action at C but it seems that there are ridiculous amounts of ways to get behind the defending team as scout.

· Would You like to see this map in future ozfortress comps?: definately
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#16
Old 1-05-2010, 01:25
Australia
1,164 Posts
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Crunch.au Crunch is offline aka Captain Crunch
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The trick is to Look at the map BEFORE playing the match.
Granted, c is tricky and somewhat confusing but " I got lost" is not an excuse for being bad at a map.
A better analysis would be " I am lazy and retarded and didn't bother to take 5 minutes to properly learn a map that somebody put hours and hours of effort into".

After numerous pugs and playtests on this map a few unresolved issues are:

defense entrances to b Are too easily locked down from a single position.
C is unnecessarily cluttered with no real attacking objectives other than just jumping on the cap. I.e you either take the whole area in a push or none of it. There is no room for pushing without an uber and commiting your whole team
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#17
Old 1-05-2010, 11:28
Australia
1,581 Posts
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b/Aragon Aragon is offline
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Crunch whats your vote outa 5?

And i agree. Getting lost and having no idea about a map is not an excuse. If you'd spent time looking over the map and even playing a scrim on it none would have that problem.
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#18
Old 1-05-2010, 17:43
United States
29 Years Old
5,197 Posts
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Sometimes i wish i added a section that says "did your team win?" just to properly sort out the bias.
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#19
Old 1-05-2010, 17:47
Melbourne
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Uther Doul Uther Doul is offline aka Laveidem, lavender, lav, meatball, Extreme Boyheat, Tamerlane
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Anyone from TT want to chirp about their experience on this map? :3
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#20
Old 1-05-2010, 18:28
Australia
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foxy•Crowie#c0g Crowie is offline aka Dr. Crowie
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I tested this map back last year when it was beta twice I think, I thought it was a clusterfuck back then. The minor changes hes made havent improved the major problems with this map which is that there is maze of connectors between C and A, B.
From the several hours I spent playing and investigating the map what I can see is that from A and B there are 2 exits and these corridors dont all go directly to C there is another connector that joins up between those 2 exits and this happens on both A and Bs exits. These 'inner' connectors in fact join up as well. Add to that there is actually a drop down vent that goes from C perimeter to another lower level connector which then joins up somewhere around A exit and back again to the inner connectors, and on the other end to yet another entrance to C.
The perimeter around C point (the opposite side from red spawn) is too closed off to the point which makes it hard to try and get in any decent spam whilst you are preparing to push your team in.
Basically if these inner connectors where deleted and shut off along with opening up C point more I think that would streamline the map a lot.
What makes gravel work is that there are clear choke points that are separated from one another not intermingled and connected. And the point areas are generous with space not confining.
This map was flawed from the initial layout I dont think any tinkering could fix it, thats from competitive 6v6 point of view, this map would be a hoot in 24 player pub though.
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#21
Old 1-05-2010, 18:43
Australia
29 Years Old
678 Posts
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b/weaselben weaselben is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragon View Post
Crunch whats your vote outa 5?

And i agree. Getting lost and having no idea about a map is not an excuse. If you'd spent time looking over the map and even playing a scrim on it none would have that problem.
Not really. A and B were fine, and it's actually reasonably easy to find them from red spawn (just move in their general direction). However there are a lot of areas and passageways surrounding C and most of them aren't intuitive nor immediately apparant in how they interact. Many are also completely unnecessary and just add to the confusion.
I'd actually pugged on it at least 3 times before and had a look around it on the day as well, and it was no less a problem.
I didn't get lost on power or takeback mountain and I'd definitely played them less.

If most of the clutter was removed from C the map would be good in future comps.

2/5
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#22
Old 1-05-2010, 18:58
Australia
1,164 Posts
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Crunch.au Crunch is offline aka Captain Crunch
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I'd give it a 3/5
just because C and the connectors around it kind of ruins the fludity of the map.

There were plenty of comments saying "C is bad because of this" during the mapping comp but the changes weren't substantial enough to make it work.

With C enlarged and connectors made more
direct it'll be a cracker of a map. If Scorpio decides to finish it off then I'd be keen to try it in a more serious comp
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#23
Old 2-05-2010, 22:08
Singapore
782 Posts
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fray`no0bifier no0bifier is offline
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· Rating: 4.5

· Likes: really encourages good communication, see lots of people saying here that they were annoyed cause there werent just 4 doors that they can watch all at the same time to stop jews. Most of the doors pass through single areas that the map maker put time to put windows and stuff there. So if you have a roaming scout that looks around and actually decent positioning it shouldnt be a problem.

B point was really nice to defend and attack once we figured out how. If people were just starting to play gpit they would also say "baww B is 2 hard to attack cause they can block all the doors to easy! B on this is wayyyyy easier to attack cause you dont have to walk out at all to see people, cause the spawn is right there. Even with this though, the design of B makes it more of a 2 stage push, requiring you to first take outside the doors then go all the way after the front line of the defense falls.

· Dislikes: didnt get to defend A cause it seemed a bit harder to cover the spawn and C at the same time so flanking scouts can get in and such

· Would You like to see this map in future ozfortress comps?:yeh def

people always h8in on C cause of all the routes the attackers can come from, but then that is also routes the defenders can jew from. The mapmaker did good with this so the sticky trap doesnt define the uber, but in turn gives the defending team more ground around C point to defend from, considering a forward defence wont work too well
Last edited by no0bifier; 2-05-2010 at 22:09.
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#24
Old 3-05-2010, 02:43
Australia
1,164 Posts
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Crunch.au Crunch is offline aka Captain Crunch
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u noobifrier. Lets be friends
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I think i just gagged and vomited at the same time...i gavomited!
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#25
Old 3-05-2010, 16:37
Australia
1,409 Posts
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NOSERKlingerthe team Klinger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no0bifier View Post
·

people always h8in on C cause of all the routes the attackers can come from, but then that is also routes the defenders can jew from. The mapmaker did good with this so the sticky trap doesnt define the uber, but in turn gives the defending team more ground around C point to defend from, considering a forward defence wont work too well
Exactly what I meant, its just easier as pyro cause you dont even need to aim to be able to jew people
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#26
Old 4-05-2010, 02:03
Australia
28 Years Old
2,600 Posts
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Why is there a little ledge way up near the roof on C that I can't rocket jump to?

-1000/5 just because of that.
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