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Old 15-11-2012, 16:40
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Originally Posted by Ask A Question Forum View Post
Hi,

My question is in regards to pushing flanks as a scout. Generally when my team pushes we like to push combo in one direction and roamer scout or sometimes both scouts through another route. When this happens I get hesitant and wonder who should be pushing first:

1. On one hand should roamer and scout push in first as a distraction to let the combo get in close on the other route, or
2. Should the combo push in first to allow the roamer and scouts to flank and clean up?

I also face this sort of dilemma when deciding whether it is better for the roamer to go around the corner first, or should the scout go and potentially get instantly destroyed by spam?

I'd imagine there would be circumstances where you would want to push either the combo or flank first. I am wondering if there are any general guidelines about what to do with different types of advantages such a player, demo and uber ad, or even in even adv situations, who pushes first?

For some reason in my mind I am thinking specifically about gully pushing mid to 4th via choke however i'm sure there's other similar push situations. Please, please help me answer these questions so I can finally be confident in some of my decisions when pushing as a scout.

Thanks
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Old 15-11-2012, 16:40
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Originally Posted by Bowt View Post
if you have advantage attacking gullywash middle then you could have your combo push choke while your scouts/2nd soldier go flank

really depends on the situation where you go and what you decide to do there is no right answer

soemtimes I think pushing flank with the combo is good because I feel its more protected and play it like a rollout

yuki said he likes to go choke because of the medkit

there isnt a right way to do it and as you said it will depend on what kind of advantage you have
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#3
Old 15-11-2012, 16:40
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Originally Posted by No Mercy View Post
1. Flank first vs Combo first:
In general the flankers job is not to be a distraction for the combo - simply because you do not have access to heals.

The reason for taking the flanks when your team is pushing are:
- making sure noone can flank your medic/combo and risk equalizing your big advantage as you take ground. The team wants perfect information.
- Avoiding being a free kill/must multiuber in the event your pushing combo interlocks ubers, while still being able to impact the fight post uber. Be patient!
- SOMETIMES using the flank to get around behind your enemies and pincer them with your combo to devastating effect (ideally uber vs no uber). While this is very effective, most flankers attempt such plays way too often and do so alone, throwing away their lives and any team advantage for no reason.

In general a scout's job in any 6v6 state is to maintain positional control and apply light pressure. Punish overextenders without heals or bombers, but avoid taking damage. Then move in and clean up as numbers dwindle (4v4 or less).

Often when pushing with large advantage (so no risk of getting counter ubered onto) it is better to push around behind the combo and protect them from potential flank risks by covering it closer to the medic. You will have less perfect information however will have access to heals and are better equiped to deal with bombers.

2. Scout bait roamer or vice versa.
This is more situational and depends more on a team dynamic. however in general i would say that a scout should be the bait in closed areas and the soldier the bait in very open areas (more rare for flank paths). Just dont ever first bait and then abandon your ally to do something different without saying so; they are just trusting you're behind them! Nothing makes me rage faster than this.
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Old 15-11-2012, 18:56
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I am wondering if there are any general guidelines about what to do with different types of advantages such a player, demo and uber ad, or even in even adv situations, who pushes first?
the main thing is to play off your advantages! think about what you can do with your advantage to get more kills/position/advantage for your team

if you have player advantage but even ubers the question is what you can do with the extra players to gain more advantage - if its only 1 player advantage maybe you could use a scout or soldier to try to force an uber or get a kill. if they die, it doesnt put your team at a disadvantage

if you have demoman advantage i would want to be fighting as it means your team can do way more damage than the other team (assuming players are even) so you want to be pushing + trying to get kills

uber advantage you would want to use your uber to push/take the next point/get kills - you are invincible and the other team isnt! you would want to be getting in their faces and multi-ubering to do as much damage to their team + take the most ground

even situations most of the time is going to be a single uber on a soldier but you can maybe change it up on certain capture points! really situational. generally the team which has the most points currently captured would be the ones pushing when its even (ie mid would push 2nd, 2nd would push last etc) but this obviously changes based on momentum or which team has any advantage

** wall of text may have mistakes as i havent double checked
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