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#1
Old 31-12-2011, 02:55
United States
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Most players understand something as simple as push with advantage, and that advantage may be players or uber, and occisonally relevant subtlie things such as ammo/positioning/entrenching etc. But sometimes the net advantage is less clear, and the plan behind a push isnt as basic as +w to victory.

You've just captured 2nd point inside granary with 6 fairly healthy players alive (or 5). Your opponents popped your uber in the push and got out, however they lost a soldier and a scout late in the fray, maybe even a 3rd player who should be spawning sooner then those 2. You know the enemy medic has uber and is in a safe position at last with his pocket soldier (maybe a heavy?).

i.e. 6v4 (or 5v3) attacking last with 100% uber disadvantage.

What is a good game plan for your team?

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More questions:

- If you're a healthy scout for the attacking team how bad would it be if you died trying something given the team plan?

- how important is it to best allocate energy towards fragging vs popping uber vs dealing with respawning defenders?

- How does the demoman affect your team plan; either your demoman is dead instead of say 1 scout, OR their demoman is dead over 1 soldier?

- What if its badlands instead of granary warehouse - how does this change your team plan and what scouts should be doing drastically?
Last edited by No Mercy; 31-12-2011 at 03:09.
#2
Old 31-12-2011, 03:00
United States
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This isnt a pop quiz and i dont have the answer in my back pocket!

Any opinions, ignorant or carfeully considered, on any part would be welcome for discussion.
#3
Old 31-12-2011, 03:06
Australia
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if I was the attacking team id just push

the team with uberadvantage has disadvantage because of players down they need to try hold and then push when players are alive

the team with uberdisadvantage has advantage because of players they should push trying to force uber or get kills

its really easy to defend warehouse with disadvantage so you can be aggressive

I dont really think about poping their uber vs getting kills or getting the cap just depends whats happening

I think it doesnt matter about your demoman being alive / dead as the attacking team hes either going to be respawned by the time he needs to defend and attacking he shouldnt just throw his life away sticky jumping in I think just support teammates although its probably a good move sometimes
#4
Old 31-12-2011, 04:34
Australia
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yuki.au yuki is offline aka Yuki
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Pretty much echoing bowts post. In pretty much every situation where you have player advantage, you should be trying to push/attack. Player advantage 99% of the time is greater than uber advantage. Player advantage allows you to outdamage/outmaneuver the other team and It's just incredibly easy for you to take position. As long as your players don't suicide in while you attack (re: Pushing with player advantage doesn't just mean +forward 1 by 1). Get heals, push as a team (ie, pocket demo med one side, roamer scouts elsewhere) and just try and isolate targets. Popping the enemy uber when you have player advantage CAN be a good idea, but it's best to isolate damage classes (especially if they have a heavy, focus him and they'll have to either uber to save or let him die, either way they're at a disadvantage).

Asking how the demoman is important to your game plan is like asking "With advantage should we attack the enemy team?". The demoman is the most critical part in your push - keeping him alive should be the most important priority should anything go wrong, simply because how demoman is so strong at defending an area by himself (especially an area like granary warehouse, if your push fucks up you just sticky the doors and hold passively and bait the enemy until your team respawns). The only time a demoman throws his life away is justified is when he a) causes enough damage to deem "useful" or gotten a key pick or two (other demoman, and PREFERABLY another kill). Demoman is just too good at defending, especially if you fail a last attack. Killing a demoman is always huge as the attacking team - they have essentially no damage and only unreliable spam from soldiers/scouts, or have to rely on diceroll aggressive moves. If you're up demoman as the attacking OR defending team most of the time you are at an advantage.

If it were badlands last you can always try for an aggressive play on the point since it caps so quickly. Having your demoman sticky the point as you make a move on it is an obvious but strong decision as the enemy team will be forced to get on the ground near the cap in the case you make a move for it. Taking the high-ground as the attacking team is also a plus, though if the defending team have uber advantage you want to not get caught out playing on the high ground or near the stairs at bottom. It's good for demoman/medic to be on ground and everyone else pushing from high ground/bottom right, and for plays to be made for the point (they will pretty much be forced to pop uber as stated before, since your demoman should have the point stickied up by now).

Experimenting is always good. Experimenting allows you to try something that is different to what is "planned" - it may turn out bad or it may turn out really good. If it turns out poorly then you know to not try that move in that certain situation (or you executed it poorly), if it turned out well then it may be something that you can implement in your ordinary gameplay for something to "mix it up". Antwa/hellscream are always wanting to try something different and I usually take their word for it that they're going to do something that isn't stupid and is justifiable, so they do it. However, if you +forward as a scout and die 2 seconds before the push or just as the push starts, you've thrown away your advantage.
Last edited by yuki; 31-12-2011 at 04:40.
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