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#1
Old 16-08-2010, 01:32
Australia
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BOBBowt Bowt is offline
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http://members.westnet.com.au/sansom/GPITshorthold.rar (first round gets restarted so you might want to fastforward for the first restart)

Hey we have been working on a new hold for Gpit B site and I thought I would upload a scrim demo seeing as though we didnt get to play it in any OWL games

One of the really good things about having a different way of holding a site is that its unexpected - every team we play against does the shadow side sentry in exactly the same way!

The sentry is at the short ramp and our heavys hold depends on where the other team goes.

With the sentry being at the short ramp it makes holding C far/connector/short alot stronger and also gives more control in what the other team is doing. Alot of people think the obvious weakness is going B long but there is alot of strengths with this hold against B long attack. Firstly the sentry covers every entrance bar long that means unless the sentry is dead the other team has to have every player come out of the long tunnel - this is really big (maybe a soldier can RJ from C close not sure). Killing the sentry isnt easy with a long uber because its at the short ramp so you lose alot of uber trying to kill the sentry. Holding at short means its really easy to rotate as well.

The other entrance that is easier to attack from is C close but it feels weak and you are so disconnected from the respawn. You cant poke out to shoot the sentry because its blocked by a wooden board.

One of the good things about the sentry being at the short ramp with the engineer update is you can move it onto the point really easily whereas a shadow side sentry for example would take ages to move to B long ramp.

we can shut down suicides easy and punish them by locking down B spawn completely

Ill ask some of the other -A- players to upload a pov I know aporia has one and they might comment some of there thoughts on the hold.
Last edited by Bowt; 16-08-2010 at 02:14.
#2
Old 16-08-2010, 02:24
Melbourne
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[nGR]Scarecrow Scarecrow is offline aka Scarecrow4242
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Has been used before (albeit nGRi days, and rarely with any coordination).

But when i last used it, it was for basically the same idea. Can't remember how successful it was, and against who (only nsf comes to mind)
#3
Old 16-08-2010, 12:13
Adelaide
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foxy•Darien#c0g Darien is offline aka darienphoenix
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Lol nice demo filename.
#4
Old 16-08-2010, 14:08
Wellington
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WHEELCHAIR WARRIORbok-bok-bok bok-bok-bok is offline
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i loved putting my sentry there
but my team would hold on roof/behind B so it never worked.
why didn't i think of holding up close!
cheers bowt!
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#5
Old 16-08-2010, 17:03
Blue Mountains
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its true.

bokbok has like 4 different sentry spots on B that we always rotate.
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#6
Old 16-08-2010, 20:26
Wollongong
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iMaporiaintel aporia is offline aka Pookie
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http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HVQDVU95

2ndsoldier perspective, had it uploaded so thought i might as well put it up for anybody interested. 2nd half is more strategically solid than the first\\

edit: just noticed the last line of bowts post

In terms of playing second soldier from this position it feels significantly stronger than standard B roof simply due to the increased versatility available without gimping your team like a noob. The hold allows for me to quite literally play as a roaming soldier playing from a "central base" of the dispenser behind short hut. If you watch the demo you'll notice that i just constantly return to this area to refresh/grab heals from bonobo then do my own thing for awhile. Obviously this "own thing" entirely depends on what the other team is doing however i tend to remain around that short position, playing from the small hut/behind the hut/in short depending where players are on both teams and the possibility of slowing down/killing the enemy or even getting an early connector call. Another important thing to remember is that holding short does not restrict you to playing from the hut! Don't be afraid to go roof, especially if they are doing a full push from C as you will quite likely be considerably more useful for your team up there than shooting no-hope rockets at players fisting your team.

tl;dr basing your play around short leaves you with many options
help your team
constantly try to slow down the enemy
check connector/short
dont die
Last edited by aporia; 16-08-2010 at 20:36.
#7
Old 18-08-2010, 11:02
Singapore
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fray`no0bifier no0bifier is offline
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Some comments from the losers -

With players playing forward in short and on the forward roof, one of the ways i saw of beating this (which we didnt do in this scrim) was trying to win the short entrance with soldier/demo/medic then playing a scout/soldier from connector to force RED behind the short house at which point the demo could shoot over the roof and get pipes/stickies onto the sentry which then allows soldiers to take the short roof.

Considering you will only have 3 fighting classes around short (assuming there is a scout roaming to check long and other c door for snipers and such and the engy is not risking his life), how do you plan to beat a spam war (especially considering you generally hold a soldier VERY forward[pickable] and hence in danger of being 2 spam players).

Every other door seemed pretty weak to push from but this one tended to lead to wins in another game prior to this one. The only real option i can see at this stage is to pick up the sentry once BLU get control of short and move to front ramp or behind the point and move to a different B hold. I understand holding the secondary further back inside short is an option, but in that case you almost give up the B entrances, and holding demo forward on the ground after short is won cannot be done easily due to scouts coming from tunnel. Is there a reliable way to defend against this sort of push with the hold you have proposed? or is the drop to other position the only method (which still isnt bad due to wasting time of the attackers)

I am a fan of the hold but it seems like the other team (after playing against it a few times) is forced to be playing short pushes, which seems like the weakness of this hold.
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#8
Old 18-08-2010, 12:07
Australia
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yuki.au yuki is offline aka Yuki
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Player shouldn't be forward enough that he can get picked off (have in the past but that was the first time we were trying the hold).

That 'forward' player should be spamming the door, if he doesn't have any hit-beeps he then checks their spawn/listens. Assuming he sees/hears nothing, he'd have to assume/call that the enemy team isn't there and you'd have your combo rotate, with the other soldier still roaming b with the scout. Demoman can sticky close entrance and can also roam. This hold allows great mobility between moving to c entrances and b entrances, so generally you should be able to control where the enemy team comes from and not put yourself in a shit position so you do not get picked. Just requires more coordination then others, but is a very rewarding hold.

Unless you get some lucky spam i don't see attacking from short working too well, alternatively you can uber the demo out short force the attention on him and have the rest attack elsewhere (maybe soldiers from c to jump on roof, or just in general aim to get position/whittle the defenders down)

In class atm so this is just off the top of my head, I'll properly analyse when i get home (lol)

Will upload a pov later

Shit, retarded posts in mentoring threads make me hard.
Last edited by yuki; 18-08-2010 at 14:07.
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#9
Old 18-08-2010, 13:49
Wellington
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the obvious counter to that is running a spy dressed as own teams medic making noise at spawn while the team sneaks to C without being spotted by the scout! thus having the defending team defend short while ALL HELL UNLEASHES AT C !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#10
Old 23-08-2010, 00:32
United States
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Potentially stronger hold using the sentry and chokes points to much greater potential, however at the expense of a more involved early coverage of all entrances required and much less forgiving on any mistakes considering the central medic positioning. Also sentry is blind to two separate doors on opposite sides of B.

Variation is always good but im not convinced there isnt any dominance here that -A- wouldnt exploit just as well on a more reserved passive holding position.
#11
Old 20-09-2010, 22:00
Australia
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BOBBowt Bowt is offline
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http://members.westnet.com.au/sansom/fraygpit.rar

another game on gpit its good watch especially from offense imo
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