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#1
Old 31-08-2009, 01:59
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After mentoring two scouts so far I've found that each one (or their partner) is designated to watching maint/closet at mid from the very start. The second thing I've found is they almost always take too much damage at the very start from the enemy demo. This thread will hopefully provide some insight as to how to work around these two common problems.

Forgive me for the lack of editing quality as seen in nesks instructional videos, but I'm a lazy fucker.
http://www.wegame.com/watch/maint_spot/

Some background info first..after playing with dogz, we used to have a problem with scouts doing the "bowt" against us - that is where scouts rush maint/cubby straight away on rollout without being spotted. This got frustrating for everyone in the team - medic, demo and us scouts because we hated losing track of enemy scouts. So solus and I joined a server and we experiment with lines to take while taking into account different spawns. So we eventually figured out if you take this line and sort of pause like you see me do in the video, you should ALWAYS see if a scout rushes straight to maint/cubby.

So we made it a habit of having 1 scout always run that line with a few exceptions (aggressive rollouts or otherwise). However, this line has a risk of you taking damage, so good awareness and avoidance is necessary, which brings me to the next problem.

http://www.wegame.com/watch/dmg_avoidance/

Fairly simple rollout which will allow you to get some overheals hopefully, allowing you to get to mid on ~140hp. Big advantage of this line is you can easily avoid early damage from their demo and fight their scouts from a good angle if need be. It also allows you to see down in to their valley and be able to call an early valley strat, which will win you the rollout.

Excuse me for the poor grammar and english, I was bored and decided to write this up in a short amount of time.

Also, yes this is pretty basic shit, so if you post that fuck you.

Oh and there's an easter egg in the second vid
hint: NESK!
Last edited by rep; 31-08-2009 at 02:01.
#2
Old 31-08-2009, 02:39
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good post rep, this configuration is a good default with a lot of flexibility
#3
Old 31-08-2009, 07:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rep``` View Post
Also, yes this is pretty basic shit, so if you post that fuck you.
experienced scouts *should* know this bit i've noticed that many have nfi of what they're meant to be doing, this should help out a few of those individuals
:)
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#4
Old 31-08-2009, 08:24
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what pvh said but to mention also I like the way you move.
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#5
Old 31-08-2009, 12:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goat View Post
experienced scouts *should* know this bit i've noticed that many have nfi of what they're meant to be doing, this should help out a few of those individuals
You'd be surprised though. Most div 1 scouts don't know how to handle the maint scouts and they almost always take an early sticky or two.
I'd like to write up an article talking about comms and working well with the team - something every scout except very very few in Australia is weak at - but this is probably the hardest thing to teach as it comes down to the individual and experience.
Last edited by rep; 31-08-2009 at 12:36.
#6
Old 31-08-2009, 13:19
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Nice writeup rep. Looking forward to more of your work.
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#7
Old 31-08-2009, 15:33
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whats maint?
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#8
Old 31-08-2009, 15:41
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Side house in middle (It has a sign above it that says "maintenance")
#9
Old 31-08-2009, 15:45
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#10
Old 31-08-2009, 16:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rep``` View Post
I'd like to write up an article talking about comms and working well with the team - something every scout except very very few in Australia is weak at - but this is probably the hardest thing to teach as it comes down to the individual and experience.
please do this and i will have oral intercourse with your penis
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#11
Old 31-08-2009, 16:42
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nice work rep, i like the 2nd one
#12
Old 31-08-2009, 17:24
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hey rep,

what would you say are the priorities of a scout on badlands rollout?

- protect demoman
- killing enemy demoman
- tracking enemy scouts
- killing enemy scouts
- giving early intel
- killing enemy medic
- etc
#13
Old 31-08-2009, 17:39
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It's pretty hard to prioritize those onions. Really depends on too many things like "is their demo pushed up or just used all his stickies? Where are their scouts at the moment? Are any enemies low? Does my other scout need help atm?"

Giving early intel should be done simultaneously with any of those other things though. Main thing to call is just any low HP target or flanks / RJ's
#14
Old 31-08-2009, 18:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnionS View Post
hey rep,

what would you say are the priorities of a scout on badlands rollout?

- protect demoman
- killing enemy demoman
- tracking enemy scouts
- killing enemy scouts
- giving early intel
- killing enemy medic
- etc
Keep in mind that what I'm about to say will change depending on the situation.
Generally you want to figure out what sort of strat they're doing. You would call out if their demo is late or slow to mid (or not there at all) which would suggest they're doing a valley rollout. Knowing they are doing a valley rollout, you can avoid all their damage and destroy them by reacting to them before they actually execute the strat.
Scouts shouldn't really call where their soldiers are because they won't really be paying as much attention to them as your other classes. However you need to be ready if your team calls 'soldier window' because you must assume he will be jumping.

On to enemy scouts... you should try to engage them or the demo at the start, but in a way where you won't take much damage or die. If you get a good meatshot on a scout and he retreats, don't chase. It doesn't matter if he didn't die because ultimately he has been disabled from the fight for atleast 5-10 seconds (or more depending on where he's gone). However, you must clearly call to your team that this scout has gone back for heals. Sure, if an enemy scout is overextended, or you have an advantage (whether it be from an overheal or some other factor), you can give chase in a smart way.

Medic kills at mid generally come about from the medic taking too much spam damage and a scout mopping up, or by the teams fault of not tracking you and letting you get 2 shots in his back). It's not something you would go out of your way for.

Protecting your demo comes by keeping their scouts under control. However, you should try to assist your demo in mopping his damage. For example, playing around their maint or hill later on in the rollout is a good way of mopping up players retreating or players who look vulnerable.

If you can kill their demo, you've probably secured mid as they have lost lots of pushing power and area control. Again, killing their demo normally comes about from you not being contested by their scouts, the demoman being a retard or another mistake. Something I know solus liked to do was if he had nothing to do on a rollout for a short period(gran for example), he would shoot the demo long range a bit. The damage may not be high, but it will add up and force the demo to ease off, letting your demo to have more reign and ultimately securing more ground.

So to sum up, as solus said it's pretty hard to have a set priority list for things like these. The priorities will change every 5 seconds on a rollout. But as a rough estimate I would say the priorities are
- controlling their scouts
- intel / assisting in damage (or mopping loL)

Again, I stress that these will change throughout the fight, so the real key is how well you adapt to different situation.

As Solus said, intel should be done simultaneously. I know scouts in very top teams who cannot call while fighting. I find this disgusting and inexcusable, personally.
Last edited by rep; 31-08-2009 at 18:02.
#15
Old 31-08-2009, 18:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rep``` View Post
Protecting your demo comes by keeping their scouts under control. However, you should try to assist your demo in mopping his damage. For example, playing around their maint or hill later on in the rollout is a good way of mopping up players retreating or players who look vulnerable.
really significant point

this is what i've tried to comment to the guy I am helping out atm, that telling your scouts to protect you does not really mean they should stand next to you so much as track their scouts etc, rep said it perfectly
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#16
Old 31-08-2009, 18:31
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on a fairly simple note, the rest of your team needs to listen to the scouts and react immediately to any given threat. if your scout calls something dont ignore it simply because you cant see it. its better to neutralise a threat with some well placed blind spam before it is already on top of you
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#17
Old 31-08-2009, 19:18
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Hey since this is a scout badlands thread i thought this could be useful

http://tf2scout.blogspot.com/2009/07...s-tactics.html
#18
Old 31-08-2009, 19:25
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thx povo

canyon and valley are same right?
#19
Old 31-08-2009, 19:47
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yes
#20
Old 31-08-2009, 20:20
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Thought this was an interesting rollout for anyone who uses the fan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ96J...layer_embedded

Then again I dont know any aussie players that use it lol.
#21
Old 31-08-2009, 21:55
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:] nice
#22
Old 31-08-2009, 22:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost` View Post
Thought this was an interesting rollout for anyone who uses the fan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ96J...layer_embedded

Then again I dont know any aussie players that use it lol.
that link is from the pvh link above
#23
Old 31-08-2009, 22:30
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Originally Posted by OnionS View Post
that link is from the pvh link above
Yeah I looking at the blog from pvh's link and I followed a link to his youtube channel.

There are quite a few useful videos on there.
#24
Old 31-08-2009, 22:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvh View Post
Hey since this is a scout badlands thread i thought this could be useful

http://tf2scout.blogspot.com/2009/07...s-tactics.html
That's how Cirok gets there so fast, I see now.

That's useful, yet i'll never use it because I personally hate the FaN.

But this has been a useful thread, thankyou Rep
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#25
Old 1-09-2009, 18:34
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Totally saw pvh do it in a pug once and started doing it, it's fast as.

FaN is 2g 4 u ned.
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#26
Old 1-09-2009, 18:51
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Just a quick tip on this aswell.
Comms for scout are usually quick calls on their strat / scout positioning. Other from that it's damage!
Make sure your communication messages are short and very precise.
Lots of scouts like to get aggressive and jump off the sides etc and keep a lot of pressure on your soldiers and demo. To disable this, make sure you have an ealy call on their scouts entering ON the point. This means if you spot a scout coming from valley/their maint and is +w'ing along. Call it! ffs! Only takes 2 rockets in the vicinity to kill him or disable that scout
#27
Old 1-09-2009, 19:27
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great stuff.
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#28
Old 1-09-2009, 20:43
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good thread, helpful
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#29
Old 1-09-2009, 21:07
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I don't know what to say really.. you learn to 2 shot people by learning to aim??

But I guess playing the angles and baiting is an easy way of getting a 2shot. On a good day for me I would 3-4 shot scouts consistently, with quite a few 2shots.

I guess I can take this time to briefly touch on aim tipz~

Generally the more you think about aiming or landing those 2 shots, you will miss the shots - from my experience anyway. The times I play well normally come from good warmup, rest and a generally healthy mental state. That is, not having a foggy mind (from being tired or hungry or just not totally in the game). When I concentrate on the game, calling to my best ability, having good morale or w/e my aim is generally good - that's why it's important to have good comms in a team (for morale).

Have a read of this article, specifically the discipline, presence and aim sections. All 3 apply equally as much to tf2. But in summary, just focus on the game at hand and aim will come to you as a byproduct.

edit: link
http://myeg.net/article/article_deta...&startIndex1=0
#30
Old 1-09-2009, 22:25
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I read that guide a while ago, it was a good read indeed.

Cheers for the tips rep, i don't play scout really but this is giving me insight into how scouts on my team play/should be playing, and what i should be looking out for.
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